13/04/2012 7:15 pm
been caring for mum in council flat for last 5 years had dementia
she went into care home as could not walk
i didnt do an assignment of tenecy i asked years ago seemed would be hard and told would have made no difference by housing officer turns out i was misinfomed
ive got maybe 5 weeks i am an unathorised occupant is ther anything i can do ???
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14/04/2012 11:00 am
thank you for your good advice
it seems i have no hope
01/05/2012 4:56 pm
Hello Mike. Thats bad news, sorry to hear about your Mum. I dont know what age you are. Do you or your Mum have a social worker? Are there other people in yourfamily who are involved? It sounds like your Mumwill be be some time in the care home and may not come back soon. I suggest you go to see either your housing Officer or his/her boss, and, if you have one, take the social worker along too. Your Mum could assign the tenancy to you, assuming she what's known as a secure council tenant- she propbably is- and you have been living there forat least a year. The Council, in most cases will have to give their permission and the tenancy has to be assigned with a particular form - known as
a deed of assignment. If your Mum has dementia that makes things more diffict. Depending on how poorly she is, she might be able to sign a document called Power of Attorney, which authorises someone to takesome decisions on her behalf, but if she is very ill then this may not be possible. I think you should first see the Council and say you are getting advice from a solicitor or Citizens Advice, and see if they will allow you to stay while you get this sorted out.Good luck.
02/05/2012 8:49 am
i did ask about deed assignment 2 yrs ago and the housind officer said i had to apply in writing to her and she would consider my request but was told it is not easy and wouldnt make any diffrence.I had already seen her houdn my neighbour when his wife died keep insisting had to leave within 4 weeks
its only when handing in forms confirming she was in care home full time and subsquently calling shelter that i could have just picked up the forms years ago.next day they phoned me talking about ntq form comming my way
its ealing so i think incredible pressure to get flats
teneancy ended so have to go
i have to throw or give everything away
i saw housing officer last week she told me same thing happend to my brother he did veryu well i should just get on with my life
im now unemployed impossible in ealing unemployed with all this furnitre to move into a bedsit so give it away and move somewhere far away cheaper from care home
the council are the problem they just want me gone 4 yrs looking after my mum with dementia means less then nothing
the idea that i could go along talk to them with social worker must be sort of thing happens outside of london even when handing in the forms girl phoned the office and seemed surprisedalli hear about is baliffs comming and its best i move out before ntq comes into effect
thank you for advice but way to late for me
03/05/2012 7:52 pm
This appears to be a council secure tenancy which is being terminated by the NTQ. In that case the council would still need to go to court to get an order for possession. The council would need to convince a judge that removing you from the property is reasonable.
Without knowing the details it is difficult to comment on the advice you got from the council in the past, but it does not sound helpful. An assignment when your mother was still living at the property and possibly still having capacity to make such decisions would have been much less stressful. Depending on how long it has been since your mother went into nursing care, there might still be a window of opportunity to have the tenancy assigned.
In the meantime it would be useful to gather as much evidence as you can of being resident in the property for several years, your role as carer, and your lack of alternative housing options. The take that information to Citizens Advice or your local community law centre. The council cannot evict you with Bailiffs at the end of the NTQ period, they still need to go to court. Even at court there will be a duty solicitor who can give initial advice on defending the claim when you get a sate for the hearing.
03/05/2012 9:19 pm
really useful all i heard from council was ntq most people leave in those 28 days
even claim had a conversation with housing officer about impossibilty of assignment of tenenacy 2 days before she was full time in care home no such conversation happend very wierd dont know why lie so blantantly it would hae been physically impossible for such a conversation to occur
i have taken some advice and realise it will take time
i thought and was given impresion had to be out in 4 weeks absolute nightmare
to move into bedsit with furniture impossible was just planning give everything away cancel bills and find a job all in 4 weeks lead to many sleepless nights and after 6 years of mums dementia my brain like treacle dumping stuff in charity shops and reading no dhss signs
knowing there will be a court date and baliffs wont turn up a week after ntq is so helpful thank you so much will look into legal advice
i was just so naive assuming 4 and half years caring would mean a little not much but some compassion but even an extra 4 weeks mean time to give stuff a way in less manic fashion
thank you again
09/05/2012 12:26 pm
Definitely do not simply move out - go and get good face-to-face advice from CAB about your situation. Some posters above have suggested options - it may still not be too late for your mum to assign to you, if she still has capacity! Get social services adult team + GP + whoever has arranged her residential care to explain everything in writing. Also read Hammersmith & Fulham LBC-v-Clarke from Court of Appeal in 2000 to see why it might not be too late.
What will happen to cases like this when legal aid falls away following Legal Aid, Sentencing & Punishment of Offenders Act 2012?
12/05/2012 0:40 am
You were misinformed the first time round (from what you said). As far as I know you could have been put on the tenancy agreement somehow back then. Perhaps you could argue that point? A "Deed of Assignment" is an important legal document. It certainly does make a difference. It "assigns" the tenancy (under certain circumstances) to another person. It sounds to me like you are being maltreated by the council who are intimidating you out of your home. If you have any illness or mental health problem yourself please don't be shy to talk to Shelter about this. I'd hope a court would not throw you out of your home after you have been misinformed to your disadvantage while caring for a sick mother, and especially if you are a "vulnerable" person in any way yourself.
12/05/2012 0:45 am
I'd like to add that you have my compassion. This is an awful situation and the council are behaving terriby. It may be worth getting your local paper on to this. The council hate to be shown up for failing their duties in the papers.
"CARER TOLD GET OUT OF COUNCIL HOME" etc
12/05/2012 5:20 pm
Sorry to hear of your plight Mike- I second above posts- go to the media local and national if possible, go to your local councillor, make a formal complaint, -have you got any evidence of residence at your mum's address- or your previous contact with housing officer who fobbed you off - seems a nasty piece or work- dont move out without a court hearing and lets see if the HO has the guts to face the judge
13/05/2012 0:39 am
Another thing you may wish to consider is whether your council's allocations policy permist you to register with them for housing, and if so you may ask the authority to grant you on discretion a new secure tenancy.
There is case law similar to you case which prohibited a lawful assignment where the original tenant did not have the mental capacity to assign.
If the matter is not resolved by counil then look out for the NTQ and grounds for possession. If notice is served then depending on grounds you wiould need to convince the court that it would not be reasonable to evict you or alternatively the council would have to provide you will suitable alternative accomodation.
13/05/2012 10:47 am
this is very helpful thank you have alreadg got ntq and guess will hang on to court case i complained about housing officer but she denied any conversation took place thisi2 yrs ago . in the complaint not upheld letter the new housing officer claims had a conversation with her
where you advised your mother had moved to care home permanetly she advised you that an assignment of tenacy of tenancy could not be carried out as no longer resided at the property
no such converstion happened the first time i talked to her was 3 weeks later where i was told now unauthorised occupant and would recieve notice to quit this is not a conversation to forget
why would they lie or is this a mistake
im getting my phone records still impossible prove a phone conversation but now i know at least not to just move out at end of ntq
ive only just put her into a care home and then throw everything away furniture/ white goods / clothes and move into a furnished bedsit within 4 weeks just seemed impossible .found it impossible to eat or sleep least have a breathing space
thank you all for your advice
14/05/2012 12:04 pm
A sad situation but I am going to put on my objective hat in order to guide.
Firstly, you need to look at the type of property that your Mum was tenant of. If it was a sheltered or designated elderly person's home or adapted in some way, then it will not be "assignable".
In terms of other tenancies, there are succession rights: but there can generally be only one change / one succession.
If previously for example, your Mum and Dad were the original tenants and at a certain stage your Mum became sole tenant then that, unfortunately will count as a succession and you will not be able to succeed - this is legislation and not something a council can or will apply discretion on.
You should be able to prove your residency whilst your Mum was tenant (Council tax is the key proof as it is an internal council system, any other bills at the address will help) so the nonsense about you not being able to succeed as your Mother is no longer resident is irrelevant - it shows up the incompetence of your housing officer.
I would be very surprised if any council granted "discretion" on jumping the waiting list / granting a new tenancy as has been suggested and would not give yourself any false hope there. Go and see your local councillor / the memeber for housing a.s.a.p - they will launch an investigation. Rather than the cloak and dagger conspiracy theories, this seems like typical incompetence at officer level that can be resolved quickly by intervention at a senior level. I am confident that within a week you will have the background of the whole tenancy explained to you and, if you are entitled to any succession, it will be honoured; a council will be legally bound to do so.
14/05/2012 4:20 pm
Please don't get your hopes up following the post by Little Red Hen as it is incorrect on one key point:
"the nonsense about you not being able to succeed as your Mother is no longer resident is irrelevant - it shows up the incompetence of your housing officer"
Not so. If your Mum no longer is resident and has no intention to return, then she has ceased to be a secure tenant and the tenancy cannot be assigned.