Wednesday, 16 May 2012

HB Bill to rise again?

Posted in: Discussion | Policy forum

26/01/2011 10:13 am

Jack Davies

Jack Davies

Posts: 40

As (a) Mortgage approvals fell by 10% last year (announced today) - so mortgages harder to obtain clearly and the banks still not lending; (b) Inflation up to 3.7% - self-explanatory; (c) Massive daily job cuts being announced, and (d) private rents facing increased demand and achieving higher rents - anyone still convinced by the HB cuts and caps will reduce the overall HB bill?

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

26/01/2011 10:17 am

I think the overall aim is not so much to reduce the HB bill but stop it rising at the phenominal rate it did under Labours mismanagement.

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Sidney Webb

Sidney Webb

Location: South East England
Posts: 224

26/01/2011 10:48 am

Naughty Melvin - you know who said that we should not worry about the escalating private rents as Housing Benefit will take the strain, one Lady Thatcher. The blame lies with the absurd direction taken in 1983 to terminate the social sector and allow private landlords to profiteer from poverty once more. Labour's guilt is for not changing this direction, but instead fiddling to try to alleviate poverty whilst simply paying even more to the landlords.

Now the situation is as peverse as housing benefit will only be decreased if those needing it to afford housing become street homeless instead. Welcome to Shappsville alongside Osborneconomics - the first is an new appartheid the second just does not add up.

By the way - I believe you need to eat your hat after yesterday's proof that the cuts were wrong and have made matters worse.

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Both sides of the fence

Both sides of the fence

Posts: 47

26/01/2011 1:06 pm

Come come PSR surely you know that yesterdays news was all because of the wrong type of snow!!!!!

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

26/01/2011 2:02 pm

PSR just because one leaf falls off a tree does not mean it's Autumn.

I think everyone was surprised by the figures. At least Mr Ed Balls was pleased by them though.

Oh and luckily I do not own a hat. I don't need one as my PR carries my brolly for me.

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Sidney Webb

Sidney Webb

Location: South East England
Posts: 224

26/01/2011 3:32 pm

A leaf falling off of a tree may not mean it is autumn Melvin, but it would appear sufficient cause for Osborne to claim the leaf as responsible for the economic failure represented by the reality of the figures.

If we were all suprised Melvin those like me would not have predicted the outcome so many months ago, would we!

It is simple economics that was seen under Lawson. If you take the spending power away from the masses - by cutting their pay, increasing inflation, increasing poor tax (VAT) and national insurance - the economy will at best slump and at worst enter recession. It's a bit like watching a fly hit a window pane in that its a lesson the Tory thinking economists are blind to.

I find the snow excuse lamentable, especially alongside the other rebuttal that the figures for the December part of the quarter are only estimated. It snowed for 2-weeks. The quarter lasted (as usual) 13-weeks. It snowed across Europe. Their economies are not shrinking. It snowed across the States. Their economy is not shrinking. It even snowed in China. Unlike the worldwide market collapse and recession, which Britain suffered less than most other countries, this calamity is perculiar to the UK and clearly the result of government failure.

I'm disappointed at your lack of honour Melvin - you promised to eat your hat in just these circumstances. I insist that you buy one and eat it - as proof I'd expect to see your avatar unmasked!

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

26/01/2011 3:37 pm

     Cheeky

..........................

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Sidney Webb

Sidney Webb

Location: South East England
Posts: 224

26/01/2011 4:30 pm

;-)

.....................

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Jack Davies

Jack Davies

Posts: 40

26/01/2011 6:00 pm

Melvin / PSR - my apologies for intruding on your little love-in but can we get back on point please?

Oh and didnt I read somewhere Melvin that the rate of increse of HB was higher under teh previous Tory government than under Blairs inept bunch.  Im sure I did but cant lay my hands on the detail as yet.

As for your assertion that "  I think the overall aim is not so much to reduce the HB bill but stop it rising at the phenominal rate it did under Labours mismanagement". 

Please read the HB debates and the press releases by Shapps et al which all say clearly that the aim is to reduce the HB bill and not reduce its rate of growth

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

27/01/2011 8:45 am

Tories are tidying up HB before it comes under UC (IMHO HB should be kept seperate). Adding an additional room rate for a disabled persons carer for example (Which Labour refused to do...) uprating the non-dependant deductions which have never been uprated by Labour etc etc. Realistically I think the HB bill cannot be reduced but its rate of increase can be.

HB rose by 50% over the last five years, fuelled by changes made under Labour.

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Sidney Webb

Sidney Webb

Location: South East England
Posts: 224

27/01/2011 9:19 am

HB rose because the landlords maxed out the rents Melvin - Labour failed to regulate because the kept the previous governments policy of relying on the private sector to provide essentials.

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

27/01/2011 10:09 am

LHA did not help but many changes under Labour were far too generous on what income was not included for Housing Benefit purposes and this also added to the bill.

Giving claimants £15 top up and not maximising the room rate added to the mess.

LHA is a good in principle but with poor legislation.

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Sidney Webb

Sidney Webb

Location: South East England
Posts: 224

27/01/2011 11:25 am

It was not the odd £15 that busted the budget, but it was the lack of rent regulation that allowed landlords to charge £bns to the public purse that was at fault.

Joining the Shapps false propaganda of blaming the tenants is not a positive step. It only adds to the creation of his excuse to be extreme.

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

27/01/2011 11:46 am

It is not the tenant I blame. It is the regulations.

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

27/01/2011 2:18 pm

Oh and removal the 'odd £15' will save half a billion pounds per year...

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Sidney Webb

Sidney Webb

Location: South East England
Posts: 224

27/01/2011 2:19 pm

Do you mean lack of regulations?

If rents were regulated Lanldords could not get away with charging the extreme rents and the benefits bill would fall accordingly.

Why the government, and so many of its apologists, shy away from regulation beggars belief, unless of course it is their not wishing to miss an opportunity to pile more suffering onto the poorest and most disadvantaged.

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Melvin Bone

Melvin Bone

Posts: 190

27/01/2011 3:16 pm

Sorry PSR. I was referring Housing Benefit regulations as a whole. Not 'regulation' per se.

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tags Accountability, advice, affordable, Affordable Home Ownership, affordable homes, affordable housing, antisocial tenant, benefits, Big Society, budget, building, consultation, councils, Cuts, debate, development, discussion, early intervention, Government, housing benefit, housing policy, politics, rent, support, tsa

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