Monday, 24 November 2014

Building stronger communities

Posted in: Need to Know | Focus

12/02/2012 8:01 pm

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Anonymous

Anonymous

16/02/2012 5:43 pm

Peter, how dare you

judge me on my ability to do my job based on my political views which have nothing whatsoever do do with my work and indeed have no place in my work, or would ever be voiced AT my work! How dare you...how rude, how judgemental and quite frankly, short sighted!!

My job is to get young people of their backsides and into work...my jobs is to tell them that the world doesnt owe them a living and if they want something and don't have the skills, then they must get themselves to college, whilst it's free, and learn things that will help them have a job. When it goes wrong, my jobs is to telp themselves pick themselves up, dust themselves off and crack on. My job is to chivvy them up, not get all namby pamby and commiserate how awful it all is.

That is quite the rusest and most judgmental post you could have made. I trust you are just having a bad day or something and that's not how you treat all people just because you disagree with something someone says or typed!

Way to turn an adult discussion into a slanging match

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

16/02/2012 7:52 pm

The truth can be painful my faceless one(anonymous),I find it so easy to criticize your outlook on our young...just like any troll that has come my way over the years, they bluster and rant over nothing, so please get back onto the subject in hand "Building stronger communities", don't down our young as feckless individuals cos you sound just like my drill sergeant on the drill square who tried and failed to break our sprites...so lets have some positive debate on building the community sprite...your ranting is not helpful..

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

16/02/2012 8:26 pm

As a suggestion to get away from this pointless slanging match, may I suggest some ideas to get our kids back in work...As A kid I lived on my wits to put extra food into my belly(food rationing)..and we came up with many scams to achieve this goal.But it was always done as a group, or what you might call today a Cooperative.With a leather and buckets we would go to the posh parts of London and clean cars in places like Bishops Avenue and Portman Square..and the money rolled in(tax free) and we formed our own office cleaning co-op in the West End of London and this was in 1949...just imagine how you could undercut the professional cleaners of today...we chopped firewood in the winter months and set up window cleaning rounds...all CASH  jobs...and this was what we kids did to earn a crust...even sold horse manure to those who worked the allotments...

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Anonymous

Anonymous

16/02/2012 8:53 pm

Why Peter? You're only going to abuse anyone whose opinion you do not happen to share!? Don't worry, it's all duly reported. I can quite assure you that I am not a 'troll' trolls set about making trouble....I am voicing a valid opinion.

I'd rather not be anonymous you know, but it is not appropriate to voice a political opinion when one works with a vulnerable client group.

However....

Car washing is a good idea....however there has been an explosion of cheap car washes run by Eastern European organisations, and it's quite competitive in some areas. Working cash in hand is always a difficult one for benefit purposes as it is supposed to be declared...(anything over £10 I think) so it needs to net the young person more than they would get in HB and JSA/IS per week....which is tough. I do wonder if there is money to be made in recycling....with another job hat on we are looking at ways of recycling white goods....not a new idea, but white goods are tough to dispose of and with a bit of know-how can be made good again....but there is a downside in working with electrical goods.

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

16/02/2012 10:03 pm

Be my guest, report me to Big Brother, but this is not a Orwellian site my friend...no bad language has been used..Just bruised some over sensitive feelings...this is what REAL  debates are all about...no brownie points or prisoners taken, just meaningful discussions..on building a future for disenfranchised kids of Britain...don't you just love this really?lol...

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

16/02/2012 10:16 pm

Car washing by Eastern Europeans in my area is usually a carried out on a static site, as you say,its pretty well tied up by them..BUT..I bet my bucket and leather they are not mobile like us kids of old..we used our bicycles to take us every place in London and like a window cleaning round they(the kids) can build up their clientele(little acorns etc)..the push bike in London will play a major part in finding work in our big cities and towns my friends and asking some government department to fund the purchase of this mode of transport would be a good starting point..wot say you?

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

16/02/2012 10:46 pm

As a retired R&D Technician I can say that there are strict guidelines on repairs of white goods, or anything electrical..the word "Competent Person" keeps popping up...but you have set off a train of thought in this old mans mind...in our town we have a re-cycling depot and you would be surprised by the number of old refurbishable bicycles that are chucked into skips...a little workshop and paint spraying equipment and we have a budding enterprise could be in the making...

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Richard Holmes

Richard Holmes

Posts: 9

17/02/2012 10:00 am

Peter - you have made ridiculous accusations against both Nonny and me (which I instantly disproved) and yet you can't apologise?  It is you that have turned this into a slanging match.

Whilst tales of car washing in the 1940s are fadcinating, we are trying to discuss building communities.  many of us who work or have worked within social housing can tell you many tales of young people who appear to be making no effort to better themselves and no effort to form part of a community.  On a daily basis I see the damage done to brand new housing developments from fag ends and litter to outright vandalism.  How do you suggest that these people can be helped?

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

17/02/2012 10:50 am

Bye the Gods of Uranus...lets call it a day with this  tit for tat talk and talk about kids..and building stronger communities OK?..

"On a daily basis I see the damage done to brand new housing developments from fag ends and litter to outright vandalism.  How do you suggest that these people can be helped?"...Can I be honest here and say this."Respect is a two way human trait,we can't just push our values and principles down their throats and expect instant compliance with our rules,life is not as easy as that,ask them for their views and what THEY would like to see in our society, meet them half way,without demands...and "these people" sounds very condescending...our fellow citizens would sound better....

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Richard Holmes

Richard Holmes

Posts: 9

17/02/2012 10:54 am

I guess no apologies will be forthcoming

Peter, you pick up on my language but not on my question.  Some tenants have no regard or respect for the development in which they live.  I don't thnk I am pushing my values down anyone's throat by saying "please don't smash holes in the wall of your block"

I see this kind of behaviour as a major stumbling block to building communities before we even start on HAs getting involved.

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

17/02/2012 11:09 am

I agree,vandalism is unacceptable and those responsible should be brought to book...and when I say "brought to book" I mean given punishment we had our youth(mine) Borstal for boys and girls should be reinstated in Britain...harsh, military glasshouse regimes designed to straighten out the most wayward of vandals...but the PC brigade would have a fit..

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Richard Holmes

Richard Holmes

Posts: 9

17/02/2012 11:40 am

So to build "a future for disenfranchised kids of Britain" - we lock them in Borstals?  I assume we catch them by "Orwellian" CCTV cameras and neighbours reporting them?

Alternatively - any ideas on how to encourage and work with tenants to improve communities?

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F451

F451

Location: Europe
Posts: 191

17/02/2012 12:59 pm

How about with enablement, support, nurturing Tricky?

Perhaps if tenants, like business, were not squeezed to the limit they may grow and develop. Perhaps if those in communities looking to self improve were not penalised through items such as Tenant Tax, Bedroom Tax, Development tax, such self improvement might deliver wider community beneift more quickly.

Just some outline thoughts - do you have any ideas of your own to offer?

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

17/02/2012 2:27 pm

Run this one past your eyes Tricky..undo all the damage the PC brigade has done to our nation and our children...bring back the right to chastise our kids, bring back the the days when a copper could clip a young offender around the ears..bring back National Service..give back power for teachers to administer punishment for abusive behavior...and by your reply to my last post you have forgotten what Britain was like before the PC brigade ruined our kids...you see today!

"So to build "a future for disenfranchised kids of Britain" - we lock them in Borstals?  I assume we catch them by "Orwellian" CCTV cameras and neighbours reporting them?"

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Richard Holmes

Richard Holmes

Posts: 9

17/02/2012 3:07 pm

So F451 wants to blame "tenant tax" "bedroom tax" etc for lack of community involvement, whereas Peter Wicks thinks we should be beating our children.  Interestng.

F451 - there comes a time when you need to stop hiding behind what you term "demonisation of the poor" and actually open your eyes to the lazy and feckless who are living off benefits with no intention of finding work, who do not look after their own homes and environments and will contribute nothing to the wider community.  Whatever you think of Shapps, cameron and all the other MPs (and you do tell us your views often) they are not responsible for what I and other housing and support workers see every single day of our working lives.

Peter - you appear to be living ina  fantasised version of the 1950s where the worst crime was scrumping apples.  We now have a generation who expect everything on a plate and won't try to self improve as we did when we were young (1970s/1980s for me).  You suggested that the government buy bikes so the young people can find work - why can't they buy their own instead of buying plasma tvs and X boxes?

There are lots of succesful projects, but they can only help and support young people, they can't do it all for them

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F451

F451

Location: Europe
Posts: 191

17/02/2012 3:17 pm

There Tricky - don't you feel better for letting your true feelings out. Now, how about sharing an idea, a suggestion, any proposition you may have for making things better.

Anything?

Anything at all?

Don't be shy, I'm sure there is an idea in there somewhere - or can you only comment on other's ideas?

No I do not blame the extra taxes the Tories are humping onto the backs of tenants for the lack of community strength. Those taxes have yet to be fully implemented and so are yet to kill off the kindling hope some people may have.

I think I was quite clear, but you ignored, that enablement, support and nurturing were the way forward. Working with people instead of against them. Building people up instead of knowcking them down. Emphasising just how much the popularist negative image of areas is often a description of the smallest minority; encouraging the majority to stand up and be seen for the strength and good that they are.

Our leaders are telling us that reducing regulation and taxation on business will aid growth, yet they want extra regulation and taxation on the poor, whom they also demand to set out and found new businesses, take self control and responsibility, use your own resources to better yourself. All a little hard to do when the Tories are robbing you blind and stupid Oiks insist on painting the majority as is they behaved like the minority.

In summary therefore, stamping on little worms like Tricky can only aid the development of stronger and fairer communities.

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Richard Holmes

Richard Holmes

Posts: 9

17/02/2012 3:51 pm

F451 - i am not here to tell you what to do (although less condescension would be nice) but if you could possibly address the points that others make?

I don't know how to improve communities, that is why I am interested in this discussion, however I see barriers to improving community.  I see feckless lazy work shy tenants who damage their own buildings and environments.  You, on the other hand, don't or won't accept that these tenants exist.

I belive that we should support initiatives and I have been involved in community work on developments, but I do think that tenants and the young people must take a certain responsibility for improving themselves and being part of the community

It wasn't me who suggested locking them up in Borstals or clipping them round the ear.  I await with interest other peoples views on the sort of initiatives that work (such as Foyer projects)

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F451

F451

Location: Europe
Posts: 191

17/02/2012 4:14 pm

Tricky, you ask for less condescension and then go on to make condescending and outright malicious remarks against tenants. As ever you have nothing to bring to the table - yet you feel able to contribute your anti-tenant stance.

I do not deny that some tenants are poorly behaved, if not outrightly condescending and malicious to others and in their attitude to society. I do attribute such negative examples as being in the minority. Indeed, you may find such negative behaviours in other communities too, even cyber communities.

My extent of reaction to your own position is the insistance you have to tar all with one brush and justify extreme action against all because of the actions of a minority.

Perhaps you do not mean to be so offensive, but out of interest, are there any issues or subjects where you do have something to contribute?

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Richard Holmes

Richard Holmes

Posts: 9

17/02/2012 5:19 pm

F451

I read your comments with interest and I have clearly stated that i am engaging on this thread to learn from others.  i spent a lot of time in my previous job working with the tenant involvement teams and learned a great deal from them which I have taken with me into my current job - it has greatly improved the relationship between my company and our HA tenants

it does not follow that because I highlight some issues with tenants - which you and other posters seem to usually deny even exist - that I am somehow anti tenant.  There are good tenants and there are bad tenants.  Everything is not the fault of government, much of it is the fault of the badly behaved tenants.

How do we improve it?  I DON'T KNOW.  Clear enough?  I don't have the answers, but by reading this site I hope to learn so that I can perhaps influence my employers when I can.  I am looking for answers though, not people pontificating and posting with such an obvious biased slant.

In this specific thread one poster made many unfounded accusations against myself and another poster - do you not think we have a right to defend ourselves?

its is Friday afternoon, the pubs are open, if you are in the same one as me I will buy you a pint and we can put the world to rights there.

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Peter Wicks

Peter Wicks

Posts: 29

17/02/2012 5:41 pm

Tricky, I find your negativity truly amazing and with the greatest of respect may I suggest you move on and find another less stressful job, you have been asked by F451 and me to offer your own suggestions for building stronger communities, all you can do is deride all that we say..please say what you would do..

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