Housing Assoiation's, ASB and Evidence Gathering
15/03/2011 3:55 pm
Here is a hypothetical scenario.
A Tenant is accused of ASB (Anti social Behaviour).
The Landlord a very large Housing Association initiates its ASB policy against the Tenant.
Failing to find any evidence of actual ASB, due to the fact his/her neighbour has lied about ASB in the first place, should the Landlord not take action against the complainaint for malicious allegations?
Also, in evidence gathering by the houinsg assoication, does the Landlord have the right to report the accused's car to the DVLA, the Police or Departemnt of Work and Pensions as well?
Is this normal Housing Association policy??
I would be most grateful for any advice
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29/06/2012 9:12 pm
i will let you know..i been to doctors aswell as im depressed...feel so low...can,t belive a h/a could do such thing to a family..now iv found out..my neighbours have done this to their past neighbourhood..they had a street party when they left..but don,t think i can get evidence for this....really feel so low...can,t get a morgage..and private rent is so dear..plus made this my home past 16 years..kid are in school here,iv got 3 jobs around here..and they on benefits nextdoor..it just annoying..i want to go on a mountain and scream..they pass me a say things out loud to each other,..to annoy me a make me flip or something..and that will be the end ..to get me out..im bitting my tongue in all this..hope ..if it goes to court i will get an apology off someone..as it is very stressful and a nuisance and i call this harrassment
01/07/2012 3:19 pm
if housing are against me..can they throw me out?..as they are the landlord?or can i go to someone higher than my tenancy enforcement officer and my housing officer?
01/07/2012 9:47 pm
the police have been there and my neighbours have told them the h/a has asked them to point the cameras at my property to gather evidence..but evidence that is not there,as they told a lot of lies..why are they on these neighbours side?...iv had a visit months ago over a tissue going over garden..what is anti-social behaviour plz..as we are not doing anything different to any family..and ho2w long can these cameras be on me...as writting this im in tears can,t sleep..please can someone reply as it driving me mad
01/07/2012 11:14 pm
You do not state which housing association this is, or whether you have been keeping a diary of events yourself. I do not know whether this is a possibility, but my housing association if you request one, has to elevate this to a stage 2. This means everything is put before a panel made up from residents of the hosuing assocation itself. You will be able to present your evidence and they can present theirs. The panel then makes a judgement which the housing association should abide with. If they do not, or you do not agree with the panel's decison you can go to the Housing Ombudsman. Normally, the Housing Ombudsman will not look at a case until the complaints procedure has been exhausted.
You will note from my post above, I had problems with a malicious neighbour also, she has recently made yet more false allegations against me. However, I have installed my own CCTV system now and were able to prove these to be a pack a lies. I still had to retain the services of a legal representative before they would even look at this evidence though.
My advice would be to put in a formal complaint and stage 2 request, get some legal advice and make sure they are with you at the hearing. It is what I have just done because the behaviour of the HA and the representative "investigating" the previous claims has been reprehensible. I also submitted the request via the Chief Executive not the local office as I gave p trying to get any sense out of them long ago.
02/07/2012 3:03 pm
td tanx you both..iv seen shelter and a solicitor..if the h/a officer has told nextdoor to do such thing..it a sacking matter as they could have put their own up to investigate..and is i can take the further human rights act 1998...and if they havn,t told the neighbours to do it..i can take my neighbours further also they have told the police lies and told lies about the h/a...so it proves they tell lies..so in that way im winning somewhere...im a bag of nerves as really iv had a letter because of this tissue going over which a gust of wind could have done that..i have my own diary..which i told them months ago iv got one..but dont seem to listen..but they will have to when all is revielled..as with the camping buissness and stuff...iwill see if stage 2 is the way forward..but don,t want to make matters worse for myself..if i do win this..they will try anything after to get me out or what?
02/07/2012 4:22 pm
housing associations blacklist tenants they do not like. This has nothing to do with you being a bad tenant, for example if you are a tenant who complains, quaite rightfully about issues, they will try to make him or her pass as a obnoxious complainant... That's why tenants do not complain any more when things go wrong on repairs and other issues , because they are scared their H/A will blacklist them... And if there is a antisocial issue they will take the side of those who never complain about repairs and other issues. in short they will find any excuse not to fulfil their duties against you. It looks like from what you said, that your enemy is not your beighbours, but your H/A because if they had acted properly in your behalf you would not be in such a situation as you are now... You seem to be doing the right thing, do not forget to keep a detailed diary of all exchanges between you and your Housing Association staff. Ask for all communication to be in writing either by letter or email. No point in communicating by phone as they will change whatever you say to suit their purposes and you would have nothing to prove the truth. You will be safe as long as you keep a detailed diary, get any other evidence and demand all communication be done in writing, do not accept anything less.
02/07/2012 8:49 pm
diary is about all the household..what we do..what time we go out and come in..if iv dropped something and made some noise..i even keep reciepts if iv gone from my village ..to proof i was not in the property..as half of their complaints have been when we were not in the property ..it stupid i know..but that what i got to do..i had nieces here playing with mine on sat...they were running up a down stairs and arguing..like kids do..so iv put that down on my diary..which i did tell them to be quiet..but their kids playing at the end of the day...no doubt they will complain about that day..but im prepared and i admit they were loud..but why should i stop nieces a family coming round because of them
03/07/2012 10:00 am
I agree with you, but that's what hundred of thousands if not millions of people do, keeps diaries about their Houssing Associations staff and their neigbours because that's why their social landlords has told them to do... Forget work, family or life, That's your life now and main occupation - everything else becomes second. Our social landlords and housing associations ruin tenants lives by making us all scared of them of our neighbours - Everybody knows and has known this situation for decades, frontline Housing STaff, their managers, their directors, their ceos, but it suits them to keep tenants scared so they won't complain about bad services and they can get away by not fulfilling their duties towards us.
03/07/2012 5:58 pm
As a newly retired police officer who has worked in community policing for years and used to the evidence gathering process for ASBO's I would simply say this....there's an old saying which I hold great store in. There's no smoke without fire, there are always two sides to every story. Any practitioner worth their salt should be able to see through malicious complaints....not easy I grant you. The problem being that you can't camp out outside the affected addresses and see for yourself. Robust questioning, no nonsense style and common sense should be applied, any fluffy stuff should be avoided at all cost. The consequences of lying about the situation should always be outlined in full to all parties. ASB diaries, CCTV, witnesses, strong links with local police team combined with being able to level with people is the only hope. I just hope its that easy when I start my new job as a housing officer soon !
03/07/2012 9:44 pm
it is true what you are saying about these diaries...it does become your first job..it takes over..only to defend myself...it gets you down,contant headaches and crying all the time..if h/a would have listened to me from the start..family wouldn,t go through this...it about people,s lives here ruined because of malicious lies..dont know if we going to have a home...andspoiling our day to day life..we on pins everytime..scared to laugh out loud..if we want to..play board games as we did..incase we are too loud..etc...good luck in your new job greyed..hope you will respect your tennants view..if you come across something like this...it is the most horrible thing iv ever gone through in my intire life..i wish this on no-one...but what will they get if found out(h/a)..and the neighbours?..as they have nearly ruined a hard working,friendly family here...and if i do win here..would i still have to live nextdoor to these people?..coz i cannot afford to move..and we are having new kitchen a bathrooms soon..which waited years to have..also made this my home..thankyou all that responded to my comment..was nice to hear version of you people..i know now im not alone..and it was nice to speak to someone else..that really listened....much appriciated..thank all xxx
04/07/2012 0:46 am
03/07/2012 5:58 pm As a newly retired police officer who has worked in community policing for years and used to the evidence gathering process for ASBO's I would simply say this....there's an old saying which I hold great store in. There's no smoke without fire, there are always two sides to every story. Any practitioner worth their salt should be able to see through malicious complaints...." Yes, and there might be three sides or four sides to the same story. It is a standard cliche' social landlords and housing association staff use not to solve any issue and wait for their salary to come in... Probably it is a trick learnt it from the police who use it a lot to cover up their failures and not to investigate crimes...
05/07/2012 8:05 pm
Well anonymous......you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time. Firstly I'm not a 'standard' kind of a guy and I won't be waiting for my salary to come in believe me. If I wanted that kind of job I'd have stayed in the police.
05/07/2012 11:32 pm
greyed... I am not saying you personally are standard of any kind... I have absolutely know clues about you to state anything personal to you... I am commenting about what is going on in socila housing... But I am glad you left the police because that's what is going on in there... I wish more would police staff would follow your example.
26/07/2012 7:35 pm
well im still waiting for some sort of letter or something..don,t know if h/a made an application to the court on 16th...but in the meantime..iv had a warning letter of the police..harrassment..i told them it a joke when they harrassing me...they have verbally abused my 9 year old over the garden fence...they have ran infront of my 19year old picking middle finger up to her..while in her car..they have abused another neighbour as she was ringing my bell..and she had a go back..and they had taped her and cctv seen her argying back..she was taken in for questioning and kept for 21 hours...we have reported them to the police...my daughter had to fill a risk assessment form(new thing)they said...neighbours have moved their cameras a bit over their side...he has cut a round hole in my back fence..and it looks a state..and they can see through....and they still dont do anything....they have also annoyed other neighbours around now..as this street was a friendly street and everyone looked after one another..what is wrong with h/a...it makes me wonder if they are related or something..as my housing officer was there the other day..for 3 hours sunbathing in the back garden
26/07/2012 9:24 pm
You state you have had a letter from the police and told them it's a joke. How, was this by phone, in person or by letter? If it was anything other than by letter, write to them explaining your reasons why this is false. As has been said before, DO OR SAY NOTHING NOW THAT IS NOT IN WRITING.
You also state that they have annoyed the neighbours around you, get written statements from all of them that have been affected if they are willing to supply them. The HA will find it lot harder to ignore if there is more than one tenant complaining.
The HO who was there sunbathing, was this during the week or weekend? either way, what was he doing at the property for 3 hours sunbathing or otherwise. Your neighbours have already supplied CCTV footage to "substantiate" their claims. This means that the cameras are working. I would be asking the HO's boss to look at this footage and explain what the HO was doing there for that length of time?
Have you requested the stage 2 review yet? We are now on the 25th, if the HA had applied to the court on the 16th I would have thought you would definitely have heard something by now. You can always visit the local county court with some ID and ask directly.
31/07/2012 4:57 pm
the police came here and handed me a red warning letter..i have still not heard nothing..and all is keeping away..but last week the neighbours daughter has started on my child..she 21..so we went to the police about it..they did a risk assessment on her..dont know what came of that..if it gone to court(seeking possession)how will i be notified?..will housing come here?..or a letter from a judge?...it annoying not knowing..even if they havn,t put it in..they should have sent me a letter saying about it by now..im sort of getting used to the cameras being there now..as we know we not doing nothing..but dont like them watching us
01/08/2012 8:46 pm
well they done it again..put another cctv up..and put one on my car and the other one on theirs now...why didnt they put the first one on their car?..the place is beginning to look like the street is full of criminal offences going on..we never had this before..and looks ugly...they either got something to hide..or they dont trust the whole neighbourhood..who do they think they are..intimidating people that lived here half their lives...police went there over daughter and just told them to stop getting the next generation involved..this could really turn to become nasty if it continue,s..dont want any of this..just want to live in peace...but cant live nextdoor to these people..i also have put my name on the swapping list and my h/o has declined it..so im trying to do everything but someone stopping me
06/11/2012 10:13 pm
Only just found this site and sorry to hear about the problems you've been experiencing.
I've had similar, but luckily the police could see thru my neighbour, whom now has been moved on to cause problems else where. Only thing I can say is keep doing the right thing and don't let it get you down.
Where are you so far, did it go to court, are the police still blinkered ? The h/a are useless, my neighbour threw bricks at my child and myself, also smashed my windows, disgraceful behaviour. All because I complained about her loud music playing and wouldn't be her friend, all very strange x
07/11/2012 10:54 pm
well now,i am moving..can,t take no more..camera,s still on me,,didnt go to court no evidence,but during the wait,h/o..offered me a bigger property,which i needed..i didnt want to move,but it for the best..these neighbours can get away with everything for some reason...a few other neighbours have complained about them,,but they can twist people round their little finger...i wrote to as many people as i could..etc..my local mp,am..chief executive,chief constable..police been here they cannot do anything about the cctv on us..it a civil matter..that will cost me 250 pounds..which i havnt got...they sick in the head looking at us 24/7..nothing else to do...it horrible for the people im making a mutual exchange with..been looked at boxes a stuff backwards a forwards..does anyone out there know how can i get these people?..as our lives been ruined and also moving was the last thing i wanted to do..dont know if h/o knows they made a mistake by not taking me to court and put me on the exchange list....the new neighbours are prepared for all of this..i have told them..which the h/o didnt tell them..but they could be ok with these people