protected tenancy succession
29/05/2010 1:03 am
hi all, i hope you can help me. my mother has recently passed away,i have been living with her for the past 35 years in a council house until 1999 when it was sold to a housing association,before the sell off mum had a secure tenancy with protected rites plus rite to buy. then she became a assured tenant with the same rites. in 2005 we had a meeting with the association to confirm my succession . i was told, i would succeed to mums tenancy as i was the only succession , i would also get protected rites and rite to buy as this was in mums tenancy unfortunately i would not be aloud to stay in the house due to under occupancy rules, and they would find me a suitable place to live.
they have now found me a place which i am about to except, but have now been told i will get mums assured tenancy but not with protected rites or rite to buy, as its only contractual, i feel cheated and misled as mum and i discussed buying her house previously but decided that as i would succeed to the rite to buy, it would be better to wait and try and buy the new place i was offered .as it would be cheaper. are they within there rites to go back on their word. thanks.
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29/05/2010 8:58 pm
Unlikely you will inherit to Mums original protected tenancy. If she had passed away prior to 1989, you may well have gained succession.
You should be entitled to an Assured Tenancy (not to be confused with an Assured Shorthold Tenancy). You will be enttiled to a secure tenancy and cannot be evicted for anything other than a serious breach of your tenancy.
There is an alternative if you have a right to buy and I would be hapy to advise you of this option if you are interested. If not, best of luck.
31/05/2010 11:50 pm
i think i am in their hands as to what tenancy i get.
01/06/2010 4:55 pm
Martin. Your mother had a preserved right to buy of her home as a former secure tenant. When she died you became a qualifying successor of that home and you also had a preserved right to buy of that home. The effect of section 171B of the Housing Act 1985 is that you effectively take your preserved right to buy with you to any other property that you move to if you become a tenant of a new property and the landlord of that new property and the landlord of the old property are the same. I am assuming that to be the case here in which case you have the preserved right to buy the property you are about to accept. There is nothing contractual about this. The preserved right to buy is a right granted by the Housing Act 1985. If your landlord still insists that you cannot buy the property that you have just accepted then I suggest you see a solicitor that specialises in housing law.
01/06/2010 7:48 pm
thanks for the help, if i have the legal right to buy. do i also succeed to mums discount years? thanks.
01/06/2010 8:23 pm
are you also saying i have the right to buy my mothers house which i am occupying at the moment and have been for the last 35 years. or does the right to buy only apply to the smaller property they are asking me to take. as at the moment i have no tenancy as they ended mums after her death and i only get my new tenancy when i downsize. thanks for any help you can give me.
02/06/2010 10:46 pm
Your discount will be worked out depending on how many years you have lived at the property.
As a matter of law, you succeeded to your mother's tenancy on her death and the housing association cannot simply end your mother's tenancy. The tenancy vested in you when your mother died. What the association can do is to ask you to move somewhere else that is suitable for your needs because the current property is too large. When you move to the new property, the association cannot treat you like a new tenant. They must apply the rules on preserved right to buy to you because you are a successor. If the association decide to leave you where you are, you will be entitled to buy the property. But do not bank on that as I suspect that the association will need the property for a larger family.
03/06/2010 1:22 am
thanks for the reply, the problem i have, is after the housing association took over the stock from the council in 1999 they changed the terms ,when mum was a tenant under the old council i had a statutary right to her tenancy, now i only have a contractery right to it ,according to them a sort of goodwill thing they offer if they feel like it to comply with the 1985 housing act. so the ball seems to be in their court to do what they want.they keep changing their minds and seem uncertain at this point in time as to what tenancy i will get as its contractury. i am none the wiser after talking to them at lenght,as they have to consult their legal team. they told me they had to end mums tenancy on the property so they could give me a new tenancy on the new one ,at the moment i am paying them an occupying fee to stay at mums house untill i move out as i have a notice to quit. i have live in this house with mum for 35 years and 15 years in the old one,so do i get all those years dicount? i this all a bit harrowing so soon after losing mum, and hoped it would be more straight foward as to what tenancy rights i got. thanks again for all the help i cant afford a lawyer so your info is invalueable to me.
03/06/2010 7:44 am
I find what you are saying very hard to believe. I have done a lot of stock transfers where the council transfer stock to housing associations and the contracts for these transfers do not allow the association to act in the way you are suggesting they have acted. I suspect there has been some sort of mistake therefore I strongly recommend that you go and see a solicitor. You may be eligible for legal aid. Sort out the preserved right to buy first and worry about the discount at that point. You should get maximum discount based on 35 years residence. Best wishes.
03/06/2010 5:58 pm
thanks for the reply. the following document is a section of their tenancy pdf file on the net, i couldnt find away to copy and paste it so i have hand typed it word for word. and this info is what they are telling me, that i only have a contracual right and not a statury one.
5.1.2 There is only one statutory right of succession under assured tenancies which is to a spouse or partner, but the trust wishes to grant the same rights as contained within section 87 of the 1985 housing act and will grant these as ADDITINAL CONTRACTUAL RIGHTS through the tenancy agreement. However because the succession right in this case is CONTRACTUAL and not STATUTORY, there can be no succession to the existing tenant agreement, the trust will therefore grant a new tenancy,of either the property that the deceased tenant lived in or an alternative property which is suitable for their needs to a close member of the tenants family. Exercising a CONTRACTUAL right to succeed providing the following criteria can be met.
i would very much like your take on this if poss. as you say i might have this all wrong, but if i have so have they, as i have been told i only have a contractual right. so i assume not much legal power. thanks again for your help.
03/06/2010 11:30 pm
In my view, this contractual provision is at odds with sections 171A and 171B of the Hosuing Act 1985. I am of the view that the act prevails over this contractual provision. Please take further independent advice from a housing solicitor if you wish to take this further.
04/06/2010 1:11 am
thanks for all your help on this confusing issue you have given me some good pointers, i will look into it a bit more if i can find the funds. I also think people shouldnt have to be troubled by all this puzzlement, the housing trusts should not play on words and stick by the rules in the housing acts. shame on them.
07/06/2010 5:27 pm
Hi can someone help me please. My mum died 2 weeks ago and lived in a council house for v15 yrs. I moved in with her 5 weeeks ago, and gave up my rental property with my daughter. Do the council have a right to kick me and my daughter out of the premises? Please help im scared!!
07/06/2010 6:48 pm
As you can see from previous answers the unfortunate situation is that you won't have any rights to remain in your mother's property.
The 'Right to Succession' Laws are fairly strict, and while some local authorities have chosen to interpret them in a more tenant friendly way, most will be suffering from severe shortages and have a long waiting list.
You don't say how old your duaghter is, but if she's young enough then the Local Council is likely to have a 'Duty of Care' and so you won't be put out on the streets. In this case you will be assessed as homeless and will have to go through the authorities system - possible hostels, or temporary accomodation until a suitable council house is found.
However, if your daughter is old enough then even that won't apply and you may well be found to have made yourself intentionally homeless and will have to make your own arrangements.
The best thing to do is for you to get yourself down to the local Citizen's Advice Bureau or Housing Aid Centre (Legal Aid Centre) - they will be able to give you firm advice on your local situtation.
Probably not what you wanted to hear but I hope it helps anyway.