Peer questions appointment of firm to write fire guidance citing director’s comments about disabled residents
A peer and former Paralympian has questioned the appointment of a fire safety consultancy to write new official fire safety guidance, citing comments its director made about disabled people on an online forum in 2014.
Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson raised the recent appointment of CS Todd & Associates to prepare new Home Office guidance covering the escape of disabled residents from high-rise buildings during a House of Lords debate on building safety on Wednesday.
She referred to a comment posted by its director, Colin Todd, who also serves as an expert witness to the Grenfell Tower Inquiry, on the FireNet Forum for safety professionals in January 2014.
Mr Todd was responding to another poster, who had suggested that automatic fire alarms could be used in the common parts of blocks of flats with disabled residents.
Rejecting the idea, which he believed would encourage residents to enter potentially dangerous parts of the building, he wrote: “What fun we will have watching Rudetube videos of the poor disabled people crawling on their hands and knees down smoke-filled corridors when the common parts fire alarm system operates to tell them to get out into the corridors because there is smoke in them.
“It all promotes equality, because the able-bodied people will have to go on their hands and knees too when the smoke layer gets too low, rather than staying in the safety of their flats.”
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Baroness Grey-Thompson, a former wheelchair racer who won a remarkable 16 Paralympic medals, told the House of Lords she was “very concerned” by the comments, adding that she “apologised if they have been taken slightly out of context, but they do need interrogating”.
In a statement to Inside Housing, Mr Todd said the discussion read in its entirety “clearly shows that I was not mocking disabled people, but reiterating a point, with an obvious tone of sarcasm”.
He added that he is “a passionate advocate of fire safety” and “in particular the protection of those who are less able to take action in the event of a fire”, claiming that his words were being taken out of context. His full statement is below.
Baroness Grey-Thompson, who is also president of the Local Government Association (LGA), called on the government to implement the recommendation of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry to offer evacuation plans to disabled residents of high-rise buildings.
She referred to her own experience of being told by a flight attendant that in the event of a crash “not only was I not going to get off, but I should not get in other people’s way”.
“Furthermore, no one from the crew, whatever the circumstances, was going to come back and help me off. This is how disabled people feel in these circumstances,” she said.
“So I ask the minister: can he understand why disabled people are so angry, and is it not reasonable that a disabled person should have a plan and have at least a chance of getting out of a building in an emergency?”
It also emerged this week that the appointment of CS Todd to prepare the new guidance, criticised by campaigners last week, is now subject to legal challenge.
The firm produced pre-Grenfell guidance in 2011 that said it was “usually unrealistic” for building owners to provide specific plans for the escape of residents with disabilities during a fire.
This has become an issue of major controversy at the Grenfell Tower Inquiry, which has revealed that 15 of the 72 victims of the Grenfell Tower fire had some form of disability. This represents 40% of the disabled residents present on the night of the blaze.
The report of the first phase of the inquiry, published in October 2019, recommended the provision of ‘personal emergency evacuation plans’ for disabled residents of high-rise buildings.
This followed criticism of the LGA guide from every expert consulted by the inquiry except Mr Todd, who said it did not need to be amended. These views were rejected by inquiry chair Sir Martin Moore-Bick.
To date, these recommendations have not been implemented. The government initially sought to water them down before a judicial review issued by a bereaved family forced a consultation on the issue to be reopened.
In December 2020, Mr Todd prepared further guidance for the British Standards Institution that said it was “not normally practicable” to provide evacuation plans for disabled residents. The guidance was withdrawn under a further threat of judicial review.
The appointment of CS Todd to write this latest guidance was challenged this week by law firm Bhatt Murphy, which also sought the prior judicial reviews on the issue.
On behalf of Sarah Rennie and Georgie Hulme of the Cladding Disability Action Group, it is arguing that the Home Office breached its public sector equality duty by failing to take into account the views of disabled people relating to the appointment.
In a statement, building safety minister Lord Stephen Greenhalgh said: “Keeping the public safe is our top priority and we are determined to ensure the tragedy of Grenfell Tower does not happen again.
“CS Todd & Associates has significant technical experience in complex fire safety matters and is appointed to provide guidance relating to fire safety.
“The company was the successful applicant for the contract after an open and fair procurement process. There is strong governance in place, which is kept under regular review, to oversee the direction and detail of the guidance before it’s published.”
Colin Todd’s statement in full
“My words on the FireNet chat forum brought to Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson’s attention and repeated by her in parliament were part of a wider conversation concerning the wisdom (or otherwise) of placing alarms only in communal areas of buildings that contain multiple households.
“Such alarms would encourage evacuation into common parts only at a late stage of the fire when such routes were probably untenable for all (and particularly so for disabled people).
“The discussion, which took place in 2014 (some years before the Grenfell disaster), when read in its entirety, clearly shows that I was not mocking disabled people, but reiterating a point, with an obvious tone of sarcasm, made by another contributor about the folly of such an installation.
“I am a passionate advocate of fire safety and, as is well known within the fire sector, in particular the protection of those who are less able to take action in the event of a fire. It is regrettable that my words have been taken out of context.”
Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson’s speech in full
“My Lords, I, too, welcome the bill. I am not a housing expert, but I have been motivated to speak in this debate due to the significant number of disabled people who have been in touch to express their serious concerns. I declare my interests. I am president of the LGA and, when in London, I stay in a block of flats. This debate has made me strongly consider my personal safety.
“Like others in your Lordships’ Chamber, I have received many emails about the costs of remedial work and the impact on people’s lives. It has become apparent that many disabled people have become marooned in their flats, which they, like others, bought in good faith.
“Disabled people spend an enormous amount of time thinking about accessing and egressing accommodation. They have to take account whether there is a fire lift or whether the lift gets turned off in an emergency.
“They have to think about evacuation procedures, such as whether it is safer to remain in their flat or to leave; whether there is a refuge or place of safety – they are quite different things – and whether to choose to use an evac chair or an evacuation sledge. That is a difficult choice, as the latter means, for me, giving up my only means of mobility. It is not stepping out of a pair of shoes.
“I know from personal experience that finding accessible accommodation that is also affordable and vaguely near where you want to live is incredibly difficult, and you can then become tied into it. Any disabled resident living in a flat under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 has been entitled to have a ‘suitable and sufficient’ fire risk assessment, but one disabled resident who got in touch with me told me that the initial advice in case of emergency was to stay in their flat, but when they sought independent advice they were told to leave because, for the particular block of flats they lived in, if they were there for more than 20 minutes, their chance of survival was severely reduced.
“A recent article in the Disability News Service stated that the government had awarded to CS Todd & Associates the contract to produce new fire safety guidance. The same consultants stated in 2011 that it was ‘usually unrealistic’ to expect landlords to put in place arrangements for disabled people to evacuate blocks of flats in the case of an emergency. It also wrote the LGA guidance, which had to be withdrawn, and the British standard, which also had to be withdrawn.
“I am also very concerned by comments that have been sent to me by a member of the Fire Safety Forum. I apologise if the comments have been taken slightly out of context, but they do need interrogating. A member of that forum wrote about ‘what fun’ they would have ‘watching Rudetube videos of the poor disabled people crawling on their hands and knees down smoke-filled corridors when the common parts of the fire alarm system operates to tell them to get out in to the corridors because there is smoke in there. It all promotes equality, because the able-bodied people will have to go on their hands and knees too when the smoke layer gets too low, rather than staying in the safety of their flats.’
“I am happy to share the links with the minister and his team. The name alongside those comments is Colin Todd. Even if the word ‘unrealistic’ has been misunderstood or poorly defined – because I recognise the complication of providing a plan in what can be difficult and changing circumstances – it feels as if disabled people are being told that they should not get in anyone else’s way and do not have a chance of evacuating the building.
“I understand that the minister has responded to the request to look into this and said that the contract was awarded according to the correct procedure. I learned this afternoon that a letter has been sent on behalf of some disabled residents to the Home Office asking that the award of this contract be rescinded.
“On researching for this debate, I was reminded that, many years ago, I was on a plane and – please bear with me – I was going to an athletics competition. Without anyone ever telling me, I always knew that the chance of me getting off a plane in an emergency was virtually zero.
“That is why I taught my daughter, from the point she could understand – probably about 18 months old – that if we were ever in that situation, she had to get herself off the plane. On this particular trip I had given up my day chair, was in my seat right at the back with other athletes, and a member of the cabin crew came to tell me that if the plane went down, not only was I not going to get off, but I should not get in other people’s way. Furthermore, no one from the crew, whatever the circumstances, was going to come back and help me off. This is how disabled people feel in these circumstances.
“I cannot begin to imagine what anyone went through on 14 June 2017, and I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson of Welton, for her incredibly moving speech. As reported by Disability Rights UK on 31 March 2021 on the evidence sessions: ‘Fifteen of the 37 disabled residents’ – of Grenfell Tower – ‘died in the fire that killed 72 people.’
“That means that 40% of the disabled people who lived in the tower died.
“So I ask the minister: can he understand why disabled people are so angry, and is it not reasonable that a disabled person should have a plan and have at least a chance of getting out of a building in an emergency? When will Her Majesty’s government be releasing the outcome of the consultation on personal emergency evacuation plans, which closed on 19 July last year? Finally, will the Minister offer his reassurance that he will do everything possible to protect disabled people through this bill as, at the moment, there is little reference to them?”
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